Showing posts with label interview - bad job reference. Show all posts
Showing posts with label interview - bad job reference. Show all posts
Monday, September 21, 2009
I Quit My Job. Can I Erase a Bad Job Reference?
The job market is turbulent. Employers and employees are stressed, and it's showing in their professional -- and unprofessional -- behaviors. Unfortunately, it's often the job seeker who suffers the most, ending up with a bad job reference when employer and employee part company. Can you erase bad job references from your record? That's what the following job seeker would like to do. Continue reading...
Thursday, July 17, 2008
Fired for Lying on Resume
Question
I got fired from a job. To get my next job, I lied on my resume. It worked and I got hired. Everything was great -- I even got a promotion. A week after starting my new role, I was terminated for lying on my resume.
Now that I am again looking for a new job, how do I explained this in the job interview? Also, when I update my resume, should I put the phone number for the companies that I used to work for?
-- Carlos
Answer
Carlos, you need to sit yourself down and look at the pattern of lying and getting fired in your work history. You need to stop this self-destructive behavior before your work history is so checkered that no one will hire you.
Legally your last employer had every right to terminate your employment based on a lie on your resume, which was an official document in your personnel file. That lesson learned (the hard way, I'm afraid), what are you going to do now?
I know it's embarrassing to get fired, and it's hard to write or talk about it, but the truth is a greater ally than a falsehood. So on your resume, make sure absolutely everything is honest. You can leave information off (like those telephone numbers of previous employers), but everything that you say on your resume must be truthful.
On your resume, you don't have to say why you left your previous jobs. However, on your job application you must answer the question if asked. So prepare for how you'll respond to that question, both on the job application and in the job interview. Here are some thoughts for talking about it in the interview:
I wish you the best with your job hunt!
I got fired from a job. To get my next job, I lied on my resume. It worked and I got hired. Everything was great -- I even got a promotion. A week after starting my new role, I was terminated for lying on my resume.
Now that I am again looking for a new job, how do I explained this in the job interview? Also, when I update my resume, should I put the phone number for the companies that I used to work for?
-- Carlos
Answer
Carlos, you need to sit yourself down and look at the pattern of lying and getting fired in your work history. You need to stop this self-destructive behavior before your work history is so checkered that no one will hire you.
Legally your last employer had every right to terminate your employment based on a lie on your resume, which was an official document in your personnel file. That lesson learned (the hard way, I'm afraid), what are you going to do now?
I know it's embarrassing to get fired, and it's hard to write or talk about it, but the truth is a greater ally than a falsehood. So on your resume, make sure absolutely everything is honest. You can leave information off (like those telephone numbers of previous employers), but everything that you say on your resume must be truthful.
On your resume, you don't have to say why you left your previous jobs. However, on your job application you must answer the question if asked. So prepare for how you'll respond to that question, both on the job application and in the job interview. Here are some thoughts for talking about it in the interview:
"I made the mistake of not fully explaining such-and-such. That mistake cost me my last job and I'll never let that happen again. I assure you my work ethic is excellent and I'll do my utmost to fulfill your expectations here at ABC Company."
I wish you the best with your job hunt!
Friday, June 27, 2008
Mom with Bad Job Reference
Question
My husband recently relocated us to South Carolina from Florida. We had just had a new baby, and I began work with a large law firm as a legal secretary/floater, which required me to have oncall hours one weekend per month, and one day per week. Since starting the job 15 months ago it has gone to 2-3 nights a week with some nights ending at midnight or later. My husband is a 3rd shift officer and we have two small children so I really can't work past 9 pm any longer.
I have also been subjected to yelling and cursing from other secretaries and it has escalated to a point where this job just doesn’t work for me.
I emailed my boss (who was portraying herself as a good friend, even calling me outside of work and always acting concerned about my family life and well being) and told her something along the lines of, "This really doesn’t seem to be working so well. The oncall hours are too much and I can't handle being cursed and yelled at. I think I need to start looking for another job." She replied “I want you to be happy and I will support you in any way I can.” I also told her I was not giving notice of resignation, and that I'd like to stay at the job until I found another one.
Weeks went by and I got called into the HR manager’s office. I was told “things just aren’t working out and we need to agree your last day with the firm will be the 30th” (30 days from the day of the meeting). I was shocked. I had been told what a great team player I was, how helpful, and professional, etc. I asked my boss, “Am I fired or what?” She replied, "No, I don’t think we look at it that way; it just isn’t a good fit anymore." A week later I inquired as to whether I will be paid for my remaining vacation time, as the manual states. I was told, "No." So, I started using up my sick time, and I put in a request for vacation time, which didn't get approved.
I went about my interviews, but I didn't get any calls after I submitted my references. I went to a staffing agency, which requested a letter of recommendation. I called my boss to ask for one, and she said, "I can’t give you one in a situation like this. All inquires have to go through the HR manager.” So, I emailed the HR manager, requesting a letter of reference.
Then the emails started coming, “Since we mutually agreed you would be leaving…”. I wrote back, “I never mutually agreed to anything. I told you that I was going to start looking for another job because of the oncall hours and constantly being yelled at by co-workers. But I never resigned or said I was giving notice, and I didn’t set the date of the 30th -- you did.” I don't want them to screw me out of unemployment, saying I “mutually agreed” to leave, especially when the job market is the worst in 22 years and I have 2 small children to care for.
Can you help me make some sense of all this? I am so worried.
Answer
by Garla Smith, Smart Moms®, LLC, smart-moms.net and smart-moms-online.com
Dear Mom with Bad Reference,
This is indeed a tough time for you. There are a couple of issues that I can address that may be motivating.
The first and foremost issue at hand is how do you get a job when you may not have a strong reference at your previous employer? I think the first course of action would be to find out exactly what the employer is saying about you. By law, the employer can legally only verify job title and dates of service. They have the option to decline to answer the questions concerning eligibility for re-employment, verification of duties and others. Because this is a law firm, I suspect they are providing references by the book. What may be a challenge for you is that they have a tone in their voice or are unwilling to give enough information to make the employer feel comfortable about hiring you.
As you already know, it is difficult for you to get a truthful answer about what is being said. However, you can hire someone to verify your references. There are professional agencies such as Allison and Taylor that can check your references. For instance, if you learn that the employer only answers questions about job title and dates of service in a very brief manner, you can alert your prospective employer that this is their policy so it will not be construed as a bad reference. If you learn that the employer has a particular tone (signifying displeasure) while answering the questions, this information may be admissible in court. Is there one peer (at the law firm) that would serve as a personal reference? You could provide a cell number or home phone and instruct the prospective employer that she can discuss your relationship but it is best to reach him/her after work hours. Make sure to speak with this reference about how you would like them to address your departure as well as those relevant skills. Did you do any volunteer work during this period or have another part-time job? Perhaps this avenue can provide a positive and talkative reference who can speak about your relevant skills.
Always handle things in a professional manner no matter what. When you are speaking to a prospective employer do not bad mouth the prior employer. It is always received as a bad sign, always. Don’t blame, don’t bad mouth, don’t appear to be the victim. You should tell them the truth of why you left but in a non-blaming fashion. It may be presented something like, ”I resigned from that position because they needed someone to support them after-hours and I was unable to do that with a new born baby...” Keep it brief, professional and never bad mouth the employer.
For the future, it is important to put things in writing. For instance, when you begin to feel you were being mislead about the hours and what was communicated, putting it in writing (via email) to your supervisor lets them know you are serious about that concern. The correspondence also helps to legally protect you. If you decide to correspond via email simply turn on the read-receipt option (via Outlook). Make sure you print out the email and file for your records. Any kind of abuse, especially verbal, should be documented to someone above you to alert them about what is going on. If all else fails, you have a paper trail if you need to file a law suit or proof to ensure you secure unemployment.
You may still have some recourse for receiving vacation pay. Some states require that employers pay remaining vacation time. Check these sites for rules and regulations about SC Labor and Employment Laws Link 1 and Link 2. Save your existing pay stubs and policy manual for documentation. Research to find a lawyer or someone familiar with employment laws to provide their professional opinion as to whether you have a case.
You can obtain a job after experiencing a challenging time with an employer. Commitment to finding a new job, resolve to not settle for unemployment, research to determine your rights and best practices will all help you eventually land another job. Best of luck!
My husband recently relocated us to South Carolina from Florida. We had just had a new baby, and I began work with a large law firm as a legal secretary/floater, which required me to have oncall hours one weekend per month, and one day per week. Since starting the job 15 months ago it has gone to 2-3 nights a week with some nights ending at midnight or later. My husband is a 3rd shift officer and we have two small children so I really can't work past 9 pm any longer.
I have also been subjected to yelling and cursing from other secretaries and it has escalated to a point where this job just doesn’t work for me.
I emailed my boss (who was portraying herself as a good friend, even calling me outside of work and always acting concerned about my family life and well being) and told her something along the lines of, "This really doesn’t seem to be working so well. The oncall hours are too much and I can't handle being cursed and yelled at. I think I need to start looking for another job." She replied “I want you to be happy and I will support you in any way I can.” I also told her I was not giving notice of resignation, and that I'd like to stay at the job until I found another one.
Weeks went by and I got called into the HR manager’s office. I was told “things just aren’t working out and we need to agree your last day with the firm will be the 30th” (30 days from the day of the meeting). I was shocked. I had been told what a great team player I was, how helpful, and professional, etc. I asked my boss, “Am I fired or what?” She replied, "No, I don’t think we look at it that way; it just isn’t a good fit anymore." A week later I inquired as to whether I will be paid for my remaining vacation time, as the manual states. I was told, "No." So, I started using up my sick time, and I put in a request for vacation time, which didn't get approved.
I went about my interviews, but I didn't get any calls after I submitted my references. I went to a staffing agency, which requested a letter of recommendation. I called my boss to ask for one, and she said, "I can’t give you one in a situation like this. All inquires have to go through the HR manager.” So, I emailed the HR manager, requesting a letter of reference.
Then the emails started coming, “Since we mutually agreed you would be leaving…”. I wrote back, “I never mutually agreed to anything. I told you that I was going to start looking for another job because of the oncall hours and constantly being yelled at by co-workers. But I never resigned or said I was giving notice, and I didn’t set the date of the 30th -- you did.” I don't want them to screw me out of unemployment, saying I “mutually agreed” to leave, especially when the job market is the worst in 22 years and I have 2 small children to care for.
Can you help me make some sense of all this? I am so worried.
Answer
by Garla Smith, Smart Moms®, LLC, smart-moms.net and smart-moms-online.com
Dear Mom with Bad Reference,
This is indeed a tough time for you. There are a couple of issues that I can address that may be motivating.
The first and foremost issue at hand is how do you get a job when you may not have a strong reference at your previous employer? I think the first course of action would be to find out exactly what the employer is saying about you. By law, the employer can legally only verify job title and dates of service. They have the option to decline to answer the questions concerning eligibility for re-employment, verification of duties and others. Because this is a law firm, I suspect they are providing references by the book. What may be a challenge for you is that they have a tone in their voice or are unwilling to give enough information to make the employer feel comfortable about hiring you.
As you already know, it is difficult for you to get a truthful answer about what is being said. However, you can hire someone to verify your references. There are professional agencies such as Allison and Taylor that can check your references. For instance, if you learn that the employer only answers questions about job title and dates of service in a very brief manner, you can alert your prospective employer that this is their policy so it will not be construed as a bad reference. If you learn that the employer has a particular tone (signifying displeasure) while answering the questions, this information may be admissible in court. Is there one peer (at the law firm) that would serve as a personal reference? You could provide a cell number or home phone and instruct the prospective employer that she can discuss your relationship but it is best to reach him/her after work hours. Make sure to speak with this reference about how you would like them to address your departure as well as those relevant skills. Did you do any volunteer work during this period or have another part-time job? Perhaps this avenue can provide a positive and talkative reference who can speak about your relevant skills.
Always handle things in a professional manner no matter what. When you are speaking to a prospective employer do not bad mouth the prior employer. It is always received as a bad sign, always. Don’t blame, don’t bad mouth, don’t appear to be the victim. You should tell them the truth of why you left but in a non-blaming fashion. It may be presented something like, ”I resigned from that position because they needed someone to support them after-hours and I was unable to do that with a new born baby...” Keep it brief, professional and never bad mouth the employer.
For the future, it is important to put things in writing. For instance, when you begin to feel you were being mislead about the hours and what was communicated, putting it in writing (via email) to your supervisor lets them know you are serious about that concern. The correspondence also helps to legally protect you. If you decide to correspond via email simply turn on the read-receipt option (via Outlook). Make sure you print out the email and file for your records. Any kind of abuse, especially verbal, should be documented to someone above you to alert them about what is going on. If all else fails, you have a paper trail if you need to file a law suit or proof to ensure you secure unemployment.
You may still have some recourse for receiving vacation pay. Some states require that employers pay remaining vacation time. Check these sites for rules and regulations about SC Labor and Employment Laws Link 1 and Link 2. Save your existing pay stubs and policy manual for documentation. Research to find a lawyer or someone familiar with employment laws to provide their professional opinion as to whether you have a case.
You can obtain a job after experiencing a challenging time with an employer. Commitment to finding a new job, resolve to not settle for unemployment, research to determine your rights and best practices will all help you eventually land another job. Best of luck!
Thursday, November 15, 2007
Leaving Things Off Your Resume
Question
I was in my last job for about 16 months. This was a small, private office (physician's office), not a large company. From the very beginning it was a "toxic" work environment. The girls in the back office were always trying to run things in the front. They told the doctor what to do and she did it.
After about two months a new receptionist was hired whom the girls in the back did not like. They were constantly gossiping about her, omitting things to try to show she was doing a bad job, etc. They would try to get me to tell them things she either was or was not doing. They lied about her and kept putting me in the middle. Eventually she left.
Then, they started doing the same things to the office manager who had only been there a short time. Again trying to force me to tell the doctor what things she was doing wrong. The last time I refused to tell the doctor anything, which only made the girls in the back angry at me. They realized I would not help them so they then turned on me.
One of the girls even physically assaulted our new receptionist, lied to the doctor when the girl told her, and got away with it! I then spoke to the doctor who would not do anything about it, stating that the girl that assualted the other one "has a lot of problems. I am glad she is causing problems up front and not back here anymore." I couldnt belive this!
I then put in my resignation and gave the doctor six weeks notice. When this one girl found out I was leaving she started trying to "befriend" me, wanting me to talk to the doctor about her getting my job. I did not do this and again was put on her "hit list." I finally could not take anymore when one day she came to my desk and threatened me. I called the office manager back to talk to her about it and she said there was nothing she could do---so I walked out.
The problem now is I dont know if I should put this job on my resume. I had three interviews in my field of work, and each time did not get the job. I was told this employer gave me a bad reference. I don't see how she could when my performance evaluations were all very good and she kept giving me raises. But I have no proof of any of this.
I now have an interview for a good job and I didn't put my last job on the resume. What if they find out I worked there? What should I do?
--Renee
Answer
by Beth Brown, Professional Resume Writer on Susan Ireland's Resume Team
It can be difficult to decide when to include something on your resume that was unpleasant, irrelevant, or, in your case, “toxic,” and when to exclude it. Here are some things to consider:
1. You need to account for your time on your resume. In other words, employers don’t like to see “gaps” on your resume. If you worked at your most recent job from 2005-07, and decided to exclude it because of what happened there, you will need to think about the effect of that on the reader. If you also had another job, or did volunteer work, or pursued studies at a school or institution, you could substitute that for the job you left. Otherwise, you should include it.
2. If you do include this job, focus on describing your achievements and positive performance evaluations. DO NOT list this employer as a reference, or provide their contact information to another prospective employer!
3. You should have a page of references (2 professional and 2 personal references would be best) that lists other people for a new employer to contact.
4. You will need to think of a quick and simple response to the “why did you leave your last position?” question. Try to stay positive and also clear, such as “I decided to explore working in a different environment (or field) to further my career growth.” If you feel comfortable with the interviewer, you might go into more detail, but you don’t need to. DO NOT bring your negative feelings about the previous job with you to an interview! Remember that you are starting fresh, and stay positive.
5. You might use a functional format for your resume, as a way to focus more on your skills than on the most recent job. In the functional format, you list your positions, dates, etc. at the bottom, and the body of the resume has accomplishments listed under skill headings such as Administrative Management, Marketing & Business Development, Client Relations, etc. This way, the reader sees what you have done first and what skills you have used, rather than looking at where you worked. This format does not work well in the technology industry, but can be very successful in other areas. Browse through Susan Ireland's examples of functional resumes or check out her book, The Complete Idiot’s Guide to the Perfect Resume.
Good luck!
Beth Brown has been a resume writer on Susan Ireland’s team for over 10 years, and has worked with more than 1000 clients from all over the world and all walks of life.
I was in my last job for about 16 months. This was a small, private office (physician's office), not a large company. From the very beginning it was a "toxic" work environment. The girls in the back office were always trying to run things in the front. They told the doctor what to do and she did it.
After about two months a new receptionist was hired whom the girls in the back did not like. They were constantly gossiping about her, omitting things to try to show she was doing a bad job, etc. They would try to get me to tell them things she either was or was not doing. They lied about her and kept putting me in the middle. Eventually she left.
Then, they started doing the same things to the office manager who had only been there a short time. Again trying to force me to tell the doctor what things she was doing wrong. The last time I refused to tell the doctor anything, which only made the girls in the back angry at me. They realized I would not help them so they then turned on me.
One of the girls even physically assaulted our new receptionist, lied to the doctor when the girl told her, and got away with it! I then spoke to the doctor who would not do anything about it, stating that the girl that assualted the other one "has a lot of problems. I am glad she is causing problems up front and not back here anymore." I couldnt belive this!
I then put in my resignation and gave the doctor six weeks notice. When this one girl found out I was leaving she started trying to "befriend" me, wanting me to talk to the doctor about her getting my job. I did not do this and again was put on her "hit list." I finally could not take anymore when one day she came to my desk and threatened me. I called the office manager back to talk to her about it and she said there was nothing she could do---so I walked out.
The problem now is I dont know if I should put this job on my resume. I had three interviews in my field of work, and each time did not get the job. I was told this employer gave me a bad reference. I don't see how she could when my performance evaluations were all very good and she kept giving me raises. But I have no proof of any of this.
I now have an interview for a good job and I didn't put my last job on the resume. What if they find out I worked there? What should I do?
--Renee
Answer
by Beth Brown, Professional Resume Writer on Susan Ireland's Resume Team
It can be difficult to decide when to include something on your resume that was unpleasant, irrelevant, or, in your case, “toxic,” and when to exclude it. Here are some things to consider:
1. You need to account for your time on your resume. In other words, employers don’t like to see “gaps” on your resume. If you worked at your most recent job from 2005-07, and decided to exclude it because of what happened there, you will need to think about the effect of that on the reader. If you also had another job, or did volunteer work, or pursued studies at a school or institution, you could substitute that for the job you left. Otherwise, you should include it.
2. If you do include this job, focus on describing your achievements and positive performance evaluations. DO NOT list this employer as a reference, or provide their contact information to another prospective employer!
3. You should have a page of references (2 professional and 2 personal references would be best) that lists other people for a new employer to contact.
4. You will need to think of a quick and simple response to the “why did you leave your last position?” question. Try to stay positive and also clear, such as “I decided to explore working in a different environment (or field) to further my career growth.” If you feel comfortable with the interviewer, you might go into more detail, but you don’t need to. DO NOT bring your negative feelings about the previous job with you to an interview! Remember that you are starting fresh, and stay positive.
5. You might use a functional format for your resume, as a way to focus more on your skills than on the most recent job. In the functional format, you list your positions, dates, etc. at the bottom, and the body of the resume has accomplishments listed under skill headings such as Administrative Management, Marketing & Business Development, Client Relations, etc. This way, the reader sees what you have done first and what skills you have used, rather than looking at where you worked. This format does not work well in the technology industry, but can be very successful in other areas. Browse through Susan Ireland's examples of functional resumes or check out her book, The Complete Idiot’s Guide to the Perfect Resume.
Good luck!
Beth Brown has been a resume writer on Susan Ireland’s team for over 10 years, and has worked with more than 1000 clients from all over the world and all walks of life.
Wednesday, August 29, 2007
Does One Bad Reference Spoil the Lot?
Question
I am in a catch-22 situation.
In 2005 December the company I was working for went into bankruptcy and so I took up a job with a high street super store as an assistant manager. The work culture was a complete shock to me and also the rude behavour of my area manager. This included no staff support and no HR support. To a fact, out of eight people who joined the company all left in the first three months due to the appalling circumstances. At that point I tendered my resignation and moved on thinking of it as a bad three-month dream.
Later I changed my course and started a career in the financial sector and after completing the courses, I started working as a mortgage adviser. Recently, I got a job with a major UK bank. But to my horror my old company (ex-area manager) gave me a very negative reference, resulting in my being in a soup. I have contacted the company and HR says the concerned manager has left the company and that HR has not given any reference good or bad for my tenure.
I do not know how to fix it. Out of the three references I had given my new employer, two have come back as excellent, saying I am a very good candidate. Please guide me as to what to do and how to sort it out.
--- Abhijeet, U.K.
Answer
by Roberta Rosen, Career Coach
Your bad three-month dream need not turn into a nightmare. Many positive facts are on your side.
First, you are able to provide two excellent references. It seems the company still insists upon a third and the third one that you provided was from a manager who was very possibly the reason that 8 employees left the company.
The good news is that this difficult area manager has also left the company. These are facts that could be explained to your present HR department.
Perhaps you could provide another reference from a former employee or someone who knows your work. Then you would have three positive references to weigh in against the negative one, making it clear that the negative reference was not representative of the quality of work you will provide to your major UK bank.
Roberta Rosen has been the career coach on Susan Ireland's team since 2001. She works with job seekers at all levels in person or by phone and helps them with career change, interview preparation, salary negotiation and career advancement.
I am in a catch-22 situation.
In 2005 December the company I was working for went into bankruptcy and so I took up a job with a high street super store as an assistant manager. The work culture was a complete shock to me and also the rude behavour of my area manager. This included no staff support and no HR support. To a fact, out of eight people who joined the company all left in the first three months due to the appalling circumstances. At that point I tendered my resignation and moved on thinking of it as a bad three-month dream.
Later I changed my course and started a career in the financial sector and after completing the courses, I started working as a mortgage adviser. Recently, I got a job with a major UK bank. But to my horror my old company (ex-area manager) gave me a very negative reference, resulting in my being in a soup. I have contacted the company and HR says the concerned manager has left the company and that HR has not given any reference good or bad for my tenure.
I do not know how to fix it. Out of the three references I had given my new employer, two have come back as excellent, saying I am a very good candidate. Please guide me as to what to do and how to sort it out.
--- Abhijeet, U.K.
Answer
by Roberta Rosen, Career Coach
Your bad three-month dream need not turn into a nightmare. Many positive facts are on your side.
First, you are able to provide two excellent references. It seems the company still insists upon a third and the third one that you provided was from a manager who was very possibly the reason that 8 employees left the company.
The good news is that this difficult area manager has also left the company. These are facts that could be explained to your present HR department.
Perhaps you could provide another reference from a former employee or someone who knows your work. Then you would have three positive references to weigh in against the negative one, making it clear that the negative reference was not representative of the quality of work you will provide to your major UK bank.
Roberta Rosen has been the career coach on Susan Ireland's team since 2001. She works with job seekers at all levels in person or by phone and helps them with career change, interview preparation, salary negotiation and career advancement.
Friday, July 27, 2007
When a Job Ends Badly
Question
I spent seven years working for and with my fiance who is self-employed. I didn't receive a salary, but worked in exchange for all expenses. We jointly owned a house and when he ended our relationship things got quite ugly as he felt I should have no profit from that house, which I was fully entitled to.
After nine months we came to an agreement, but now I'm trying to find employment and I'm afraid of what he would say to a prospective employer. He runs his businesses himself so there is nobody else to go to for a reference.
Please help me figure out what to say about why I left, my salary, and the fact that I don't want him contacted.
Thanks so much!
--- Lynn
Answer
by Wendy Gelberg, Career Coach and Resume Writer
Hi, Lynn,
There are several things you can do to neutralize the negatives from your most recent work situation as you launch your job search. The first is to develop a strong resume and cover letter, neither of which needs to address the questions you raise – you’ll do that in the interview. The resume and cover letter, along with some active networking, will help you land the interview in the first place by focusing on your achievements and results and how they will help the employer (you’ll hear that theme throughout the advice that follows).
Once you get to talk with an employer directly, whether in person or by phone, the most important thing to remember is not to get defensive and not to sound negative about what happened with your previous employer/ex-fiancé. Keep in mind that not all job applicants are invited for an interview, so when you are given that opportunity, it means that there’s something in your background that an employer is impressed with or interested in, and you want to be sure to find out what that is and expand upon on that aspect of your background. That will keep the tone of the interview positive and keep it focused on your skills and achievements and how they will benefit the new employer.
As for your specific questions, let’s look at them one at a time, starting with the question of why you left. It’s perfectly acceptable to offer the explanation you gave above – you were working with your fiancé, helping him manage his business, and when that relationship ended, it made sense to find work elsewhere. No more detail is necessary. In fact, more detail would be excessive and would risk having you get defensive or inadvertently bad-mouth your ex. Even if the interviewer doesn’t immediately ask another question and your answer is followed by what may feel like an awkward silence, don’t give in to the temptation to elaborate on your answer. Wait out the silence. Or express your excitement about this new opportunity and describe the contribution you can make to help this employer achieve its goals, based on information you’ve been given or have researched.
With regard to references, there are a couple of ways to approach this. Will your ex-fiancé verify that you worked at his company? Many, if not most, employers have adopted a policy of providing only verification of employment – they will not provide more detailed references for fear of being sued. Perhaps your ex will choose this conservative course, in which case there is no risk in having someone contact him. Regardless, you don’t necessarily have to use him as a reference, and given your reason for leaving your last job, a new employer would understand that your ex might not be a good reference. Perhaps you had dealings with vendors, customers, or other professional service providers, who can serve as references instead.
If not, think about finding an organization that you can offer your services to as a volunteer, using your professional skills, so that you can begin to create a new professional track record. Since a job search typically takes several months, you have time to establish your credibility, character, and competence in another setting so that others will be able to vouch for you.
One other thought about references – consider checking out what your ex will actually say when contacted by a prospective employer. You could have a friend call, or you could hire a company that does reference checks and reports back to you what your references are saying. (One such company is Allison & Taylor.). With all of your references, it’s a good idea to brief them on each position you interview for and what aspects of your background you want them to speak to.
Finally, the question of salary: First, it’s best to deflect salary discussions until there’s actually an offer on the table. However, that’s not always possible. Sometimes an employer will ask you about your salary history. In your case, the situation is the same as if you had been working as a volunteer for an organization for seven years, and you can present it as such – that doesn’t make your work any less valuable or your achievements any less positive. You were helping out as a de facto member of the family and did not draw a salary.
Sometimes an employer will ask what your target salary is. Do some homework ahead of time and find out the going rate for your occupation in your geographic area. Then, if you can’t deflect the salary discussion, you can indicate that you understand that the range is generally between x and y, and ask if that is in fact the range for this position. To help you with your salary homework, there are several web sites that calculate salary, such as cbsalary.com from CareerBuilder, or salary.com. Also, use your networking to help you get a sense of what people in your field are making.
As long as you stay focused on the positive, Lynn, and the benefits you bring to the new employer, you should be able to shine in any interview situation. Best of luck with your search!
Wendy Gelberg, M.Ed., helps job seekers communicate effectively and confidently, in speech and in writing, to get unstuck in their job search.
I spent seven years working for and with my fiance who is self-employed. I didn't receive a salary, but worked in exchange for all expenses. We jointly owned a house and when he ended our relationship things got quite ugly as he felt I should have no profit from that house, which I was fully entitled to.
After nine months we came to an agreement, but now I'm trying to find employment and I'm afraid of what he would say to a prospective employer. He runs his businesses himself so there is nobody else to go to for a reference.
Please help me figure out what to say about why I left, my salary, and the fact that I don't want him contacted.
Thanks so much!
--- Lynn
Answer
by Wendy Gelberg, Career Coach and Resume Writer
Hi, Lynn,
There are several things you can do to neutralize the negatives from your most recent work situation as you launch your job search. The first is to develop a strong resume and cover letter, neither of which needs to address the questions you raise – you’ll do that in the interview. The resume and cover letter, along with some active networking, will help you land the interview in the first place by focusing on your achievements and results and how they will help the employer (you’ll hear that theme throughout the advice that follows).
Once you get to talk with an employer directly, whether in person or by phone, the most important thing to remember is not to get defensive and not to sound negative about what happened with your previous employer/ex-fiancé. Keep in mind that not all job applicants are invited for an interview, so when you are given that opportunity, it means that there’s something in your background that an employer is impressed with or interested in, and you want to be sure to find out what that is and expand upon on that aspect of your background. That will keep the tone of the interview positive and keep it focused on your skills and achievements and how they will benefit the new employer.
As for your specific questions, let’s look at them one at a time, starting with the question of why you left. It’s perfectly acceptable to offer the explanation you gave above – you were working with your fiancé, helping him manage his business, and when that relationship ended, it made sense to find work elsewhere. No more detail is necessary. In fact, more detail would be excessive and would risk having you get defensive or inadvertently bad-mouth your ex. Even if the interviewer doesn’t immediately ask another question and your answer is followed by what may feel like an awkward silence, don’t give in to the temptation to elaborate on your answer. Wait out the silence. Or express your excitement about this new opportunity and describe the contribution you can make to help this employer achieve its goals, based on information you’ve been given or have researched.
With regard to references, there are a couple of ways to approach this. Will your ex-fiancé verify that you worked at his company? Many, if not most, employers have adopted a policy of providing only verification of employment – they will not provide more detailed references for fear of being sued. Perhaps your ex will choose this conservative course, in which case there is no risk in having someone contact him. Regardless, you don’t necessarily have to use him as a reference, and given your reason for leaving your last job, a new employer would understand that your ex might not be a good reference. Perhaps you had dealings with vendors, customers, or other professional service providers, who can serve as references instead.
If not, think about finding an organization that you can offer your services to as a volunteer, using your professional skills, so that you can begin to create a new professional track record. Since a job search typically takes several months, you have time to establish your credibility, character, and competence in another setting so that others will be able to vouch for you.
One other thought about references – consider checking out what your ex will actually say when contacted by a prospective employer. You could have a friend call, or you could hire a company that does reference checks and reports back to you what your references are saying. (One such company is Allison & Taylor.). With all of your references, it’s a good idea to brief them on each position you interview for and what aspects of your background you want them to speak to.
Finally, the question of salary: First, it’s best to deflect salary discussions until there’s actually an offer on the table. However, that’s not always possible. Sometimes an employer will ask you about your salary history. In your case, the situation is the same as if you had been working as a volunteer for an organization for seven years, and you can present it as such – that doesn’t make your work any less valuable or your achievements any less positive. You were helping out as a de facto member of the family and did not draw a salary.
Sometimes an employer will ask what your target salary is. Do some homework ahead of time and find out the going rate for your occupation in your geographic area. Then, if you can’t deflect the salary discussion, you can indicate that you understand that the range is generally between x and y, and ask if that is in fact the range for this position. To help you with your salary homework, there are several web sites that calculate salary, such as cbsalary.com from CareerBuilder, or salary.com. Also, use your networking to help you get a sense of what people in your field are making.
As long as you stay focused on the positive, Lynn, and the benefits you bring to the new employer, you should be able to shine in any interview situation. Best of luck with your search!
Wendy Gelberg, M.Ed., helps job seekers communicate effectively and confidently, in speech and in writing, to get unstuck in their job search.
Find out more about Hispanic Recruiting at LatPro.com.
Monday, June 11, 2007
Bad Boss, Bad Reference
Question
I am currently employed in a job where my boss is sure to give me a terrible reference due to the fact that we have had personality conflicts all along the way. I do not respect her or the vile things she has done to me and to other coworkers (I truly believe she is unbalanced, quite honestly----for one, she lies, without batting a lash, about the most outlandish things) and I am afraid that I will never get a good reference out of her.
Furthermore, she is the person to talk to about job references about me...no other manager/authority will intervene. The common remedy for this situation is usually: "Oh, by law, so-and-so will not give you a bad reference because she cannot say anything damning about you for fear of being sued." Trust me, this woman can put across her poison to any potential employer to let them know what she really thinks of me without getting herself into legal trouble. I've seen her knife others in a similar fashion.
I have just graduated from Howard University with a BA Degree in Arts Management and she is the most prominent obstacle to my escaping from this horrible situation and into a dream job.
I repeat, no good or neutral reference to be had from this woman. What possible remedy can there be for me??
Answer
by Alexander Kjerulf, Chief Happiness Officer
Oh man, that sucks! When a person is both messing up your work life and happens to be the gatekeeper preventing you from seeking new employment – that's a really tough situation.
Here's my advice: Get out of there anyway. Now. Today. Don't wait to find a new job, just quit.
I agree that this will make finding your next job more difficult – but this is unlikely to change any time soon. Her review will be just as vile in 6 months, 1 year or 5 years. Get out of Dodge now, while you still have some energy, sanity and optimism left.
Here are a few ideas when you're looking for your next job:
Can you get away with not mentioning your employment at this company? You're a recent graduate, after all. Maybe it won't look so strange on your resume to simply leave out this job.
Alternatively, can you get 3 or 4 references from other people in your current workplace? From other bosses, co-workers – possibly even customers. These should be glowingly positive. You can then use these references to offset her bad one.
Finally, you could simply explain the situation to future employers. Interpersonal conflicts are nothing new, and you're hardly the first person who doesn't get along with a boss. If you choose to do it this way, make sure to say nothing negative about your old boss. Not one word. Simply say that you didn't have great chemistry.
The important thing is for you to get away from her. The sooner the better!
I am currently employed in a job where my boss is sure to give me a terrible reference due to the fact that we have had personality conflicts all along the way. I do not respect her or the vile things she has done to me and to other coworkers (I truly believe she is unbalanced, quite honestly----for one, she lies, without batting a lash, about the most outlandish things) and I am afraid that I will never get a good reference out of her.
Furthermore, she is the person to talk to about job references about me...no other manager/authority will intervene. The common remedy for this situation is usually: "Oh, by law, so-and-so will not give you a bad reference because she cannot say anything damning about you for fear of being sued." Trust me, this woman can put across her poison to any potential employer to let them know what she really thinks of me without getting herself into legal trouble. I've seen her knife others in a similar fashion.
I have just graduated from Howard University with a BA Degree in Arts Management and she is the most prominent obstacle to my escaping from this horrible situation and into a dream job.
I repeat, no good or neutral reference to be had from this woman. What possible remedy can there be for me??
Answer
by Alexander Kjerulf, Chief Happiness Officer
Oh man, that sucks! When a person is both messing up your work life and happens to be the gatekeeper preventing you from seeking new employment – that's a really tough situation.
Here's my advice: Get out of there anyway. Now. Today. Don't wait to find a new job, just quit.
I agree that this will make finding your next job more difficult – but this is unlikely to change any time soon. Her review will be just as vile in 6 months, 1 year or 5 years. Get out of Dodge now, while you still have some energy, sanity and optimism left.
Here are a few ideas when you're looking for your next job:
Can you get away with not mentioning your employment at this company? You're a recent graduate, after all. Maybe it won't look so strange on your resume to simply leave out this job.
Alternatively, can you get 3 or 4 references from other people in your current workplace? From other bosses, co-workers – possibly even customers. These should be glowingly positive. You can then use these references to offset her bad one.
Finally, you could simply explain the situation to future employers. Interpersonal conflicts are nothing new, and you're hardly the first person who doesn't get along with a boss. If you choose to do it this way, make sure to say nothing negative about your old boss. Not one word. Simply say that you didn't have great chemistry.
The important thing is for you to get away from her. The sooner the better!
Monday, May 14, 2007
Terminated and Moving On
Question
I was terminated from my job, nearly a year ago, because I decided to take a stand. There were some very questionable things going on within management. Since it affected the employees and the company in a very negative way, I started a petition within my department regarding the issues and more than half of the employees signed it. I submitted a letter, along with the petition to the compliance department, which got remarkable attention - resulting in a visit from the President of the company that included a one-on-one interview with everyone in the department. In the end, half of management was terminated along with myself.
I imagine they were uncomfortable with me staying there considering what I knew. The much needed change that was due to that particular department was granted because of my actions, so I am very happy that the employees have a better place to work, some of them had no positive outlet, including no high school diplomas. They had no way out.
I recently began seeking employment as a legal assistant and have gotten several call backs for interviews. How do I explain my termination without scrutinizing the company?
--Zandria
Answer
by Ronnie Ann, Work Coach
Hi Zandria!
First let me congratulate you on taking action that sounds like it wound up helping many employees. This is a tough thing to do and most people would have been afraid to take a stand like this, so I applaud you for wanting to make a difference. Sadly, it resulted in your departure – most companies just don’t feel comfortable keeping people who have taken such action, even if in the end the company benefits. I’m sorry about that for your sake, but I hope your next job will make up for all of it.
That said…there is no reason to mention any of the specific circumstances in your interviews. Nowadays, because of possible legal implications, most companies will not reveal details like this when contacted for references. Also, I would assume the company would rather not have its dirty laundry discussed in public. So I would guess they are hoping you don’t mention it either. (In the slim event they do talk about it as part of a reference, then you might want to have a talk with your former employer to explain that you are not discussing the details and would appreciate the same courtesy.)
Your best bet is to emphasize the good things and simply explain that there was a reorganization in which a layer of management was let go (or some such explanation). Be casual about the whole thing and keep your answer to this question short and sweet. The less mentioned about it the better. Main thing is to show only good will toward your former employer. Interviewers know that one day you might be leaving them and they like to hire people who won’t tell dirt!
Although your termination was part of a reorganization, CVTips.com has some thoughts that apply to any termination that wasn’t of one’s own choice. In their post, Answering the Interview Question: Why Were You Fired?, they emphasize being open in your answers:
Now that doesn’t mean you need to tell them the whole story. Just be open and direct about the fact that a reorganization happened and you were let go as part of the process. It’s such a common story nowadays, unless you make it into a big deal, a simple answer and a comfortable smile will suffice. The main thing is to emphasize you are looking forward to starting a new job in a company like this one. (It doesn’t hurt to have a few reasons why you are especially excited about this particular company.)
The bigger question for me is “What have you been doing in the last year since you were let go?” There is a one-year gap that, when coupled with a termination, could raise an eyebrow or two. Make sure you have a good answer that a new employer will be comfortable with. If you’ve done any volunteer work in that time or taken time to help a family member, be prepared to talk a little about that in a way that emphasizes your good qualities. (It never hurts to rehearse in front of a mirror or with a friend just to get comfortable with all the details of what you want to say. Just make sure you can still sound natural, as an employer is more interested in seeing the real you than hearing a “perfect” canned answer!)
The fact that you already have some interviews is a very good sign. You might even consider looking for a job within a union or labor law firm since you seem to have the spirit.
Just know that these things happen to most of us. Simply focus on what you have to tell that makes you a great hire and a good fit for the company. Leave the rest in the past where it belongs!
Good luck, Zandria. I wish you all the best in your new job.
Susan Ireland’s Two Cents
Job Lounger, do you have a question? Email (joblounge@aol.com) it to me and I’ll post your question and an expert’s answer here in The Job Lounge.
I was terminated from my job, nearly a year ago, because I decided to take a stand. There were some very questionable things going on within management. Since it affected the employees and the company in a very negative way, I started a petition within my department regarding the issues and more than half of the employees signed it. I submitted a letter, along with the petition to the compliance department, which got remarkable attention - resulting in a visit from the President of the company that included a one-on-one interview with everyone in the department. In the end, half of management was terminated along with myself.
I imagine they were uncomfortable with me staying there considering what I knew. The much needed change that was due to that particular department was granted because of my actions, so I am very happy that the employees have a better place to work, some of them had no positive outlet, including no high school diplomas. They had no way out.
I recently began seeking employment as a legal assistant and have gotten several call backs for interviews. How do I explain my termination without scrutinizing the company?
--Zandria
Answer
by Ronnie Ann, Work Coach
Hi Zandria!
First let me congratulate you on taking action that sounds like it wound up helping many employees. This is a tough thing to do and most people would have been afraid to take a stand like this, so I applaud you for wanting to make a difference. Sadly, it resulted in your departure – most companies just don’t feel comfortable keeping people who have taken such action, even if in the end the company benefits. I’m sorry about that for your sake, but I hope your next job will make up for all of it.
That said…there is no reason to mention any of the specific circumstances in your interviews. Nowadays, because of possible legal implications, most companies will not reveal details like this when contacted for references. Also, I would assume the company would rather not have its dirty laundry discussed in public. So I would guess they are hoping you don’t mention it either. (In the slim event they do talk about it as part of a reference, then you might want to have a talk with your former employer to explain that you are not discussing the details and would appreciate the same courtesy.)
Your best bet is to emphasize the good things and simply explain that there was a reorganization in which a layer of management was let go (or some such explanation). Be casual about the whole thing and keep your answer to this question short and sweet. The less mentioned about it the better. Main thing is to show only good will toward your former employer. Interviewers know that one day you might be leaving them and they like to hire people who won’t tell dirt!
Although your termination was part of a reorganization, CVTips.com has some thoughts that apply to any termination that wasn’t of one’s own choice. In their post, Answering the Interview Question: Why Were You Fired?, they emphasize being open in your answers:
“While trying to give a pleasant-to-hear answer do not hide the real reasons, i.e. if the company was going through financial problems, or if they were downsizing and found your position expendable, do not feel ashamed to say so. Emphasize how much you learnt from the past experience in the job and how much you look forward to move on. This will establish you as a mature person.”
Now that doesn’t mean you need to tell them the whole story. Just be open and direct about the fact that a reorganization happened and you were let go as part of the process. It’s such a common story nowadays, unless you make it into a big deal, a simple answer and a comfortable smile will suffice. The main thing is to emphasize you are looking forward to starting a new job in a company like this one. (It doesn’t hurt to have a few reasons why you are especially excited about this particular company.)
The bigger question for me is “What have you been doing in the last year since you were let go?” There is a one-year gap that, when coupled with a termination, could raise an eyebrow or two. Make sure you have a good answer that a new employer will be comfortable with. If you’ve done any volunteer work in that time or taken time to help a family member, be prepared to talk a little about that in a way that emphasizes your good qualities. (It never hurts to rehearse in front of a mirror or with a friend just to get comfortable with all the details of what you want to say. Just make sure you can still sound natural, as an employer is more interested in seeing the real you than hearing a “perfect” canned answer!)
The fact that you already have some interviews is a very good sign. You might even consider looking for a job within a union or labor law firm since you seem to have the spirit.
Just know that these things happen to most of us. Simply focus on what you have to tell that makes you a great hire and a good fit for the company. Leave the rest in the past where it belongs!
Good luck, Zandria. I wish you all the best in your new job.
Susan Ireland’s Two Cents
Job Lounger, do you have a question? Email (joblounge@aol.com) it to me and I’ll post your question and an expert’s answer here in The Job Lounge.
Tuesday, May 08, 2007
Recent Grad Can’t Get New Job… Bad Reference
Question
Since I graduated a year ago, I've had two different jobs. The first one I left due to the strain of the hours and the second one I was dismissed from. Ever since I was dismissed from my last job, I've had tons of trouble trying to find a job. In the last 3 months, I've applied for tons of jobs and even gotten several interviews. However, I still haven't received a job offer. Today, I found out that a job I really had my hopes set on had passed me by. When I called, I was told that I had received a bad reference from my previous employer.
I don't know what to do anymore!! I'm totally crushed and no one is willing to give me a second chance. I know I'm a great employee who always performs above and beyond expectations and I have several great references but because I've been terminated from a job and they give me a bad reference, no one will take me on!! I fear I'll be stuck in a dead-end low-paying job for the rest of my life!!
-- Totally crushed
Answer
by Honey Smith, Professional Life Coach
Dear Totally Crushed,
You wrote that "No one" is willing to give you a "second chance" at a job. You also wrote that you "graduated a year ago." These hard knocks early in the game might make you feel like this is how it will be for the rest of your life.
Rest easy. It doesn't have to be that way at all.
You can turn these disappointments to your advantage. To do so, it's vital that you look honestly at what's happened to you. Start by considering these questions:
o Why was I dismissed? What do the circumstances around my dismissal tell me about myself, the particular job or boss and the working world in general?
o What would make a prospective employer weigh one bad experience against all the positive references I provide?
o Do I need to mention the job I was dismissed from on my resume or in interviews? If so, how will it serve me to do so, and what will it take to present it from my own perspective?
o How are my interviewing skills? You wrote that one interviewer claimed your bad reference was the reason you didn't get the job, but what about the others? Did you ask the other interviewers why you were not hired? If so, did you see a pattern emerge of your strengths and weaknesses? If those interviewers weren't forthcoming, who might you ask for some honest feedback on your interviewing skills? Could you practice improving those skills?
Lastly, you may want to consider if you're targeting the jobs that are the best fit for you.
Honey Smith, Ed.M. is a Professional Life Coach who helps job seekers fast forward their careers, master life transitions and fulfill their potential.
Susan Ireland’s Two Cents
Totally Crushed, you are at the beginning of your career, which in many ways is like being a freshman in college again. (They don’t call life the “school of hard rocks” for nothin’.) Don’t be discouraged. My guess is you just have some things to learn about yourself and the world of work.
I suggest you meet with a career coach –- maybe a counselor through your former college career center or a professional from the private sector -- who can explore what went “wrong” on your last job and see what skills you need to hone or maybe what mindset you can shift to help in your career future.
About job references: in Ask the Experts: Letter of Reference Unavailable Because Employer is Out of Business Carol Anderson has a way around the typical reference-from-the-former-employer:
Job Lounger, do you have a question? Email (joblounge@aol.com) it to me and I’ll post your question and an expert’s answer here in The Job Lounge.
Since I graduated a year ago, I've had two different jobs. The first one I left due to the strain of the hours and the second one I was dismissed from. Ever since I was dismissed from my last job, I've had tons of trouble trying to find a job. In the last 3 months, I've applied for tons of jobs and even gotten several interviews. However, I still haven't received a job offer. Today, I found out that a job I really had my hopes set on had passed me by. When I called, I was told that I had received a bad reference from my previous employer.
I don't know what to do anymore!! I'm totally crushed and no one is willing to give me a second chance. I know I'm a great employee who always performs above and beyond expectations and I have several great references but because I've been terminated from a job and they give me a bad reference, no one will take me on!! I fear I'll be stuck in a dead-end low-paying job for the rest of my life!!
-- Totally crushed
Answer
by Honey Smith, Professional Life Coach
Dear Totally Crushed,
You wrote that "No one" is willing to give you a "second chance" at a job. You also wrote that you "graduated a year ago." These hard knocks early in the game might make you feel like this is how it will be for the rest of your life.
Rest easy. It doesn't have to be that way at all.
You can turn these disappointments to your advantage. To do so, it's vital that you look honestly at what's happened to you. Start by considering these questions:
o Why was I dismissed? What do the circumstances around my dismissal tell me about myself, the particular job or boss and the working world in general?
o What would make a prospective employer weigh one bad experience against all the positive references I provide?
o Do I need to mention the job I was dismissed from on my resume or in interviews? If so, how will it serve me to do so, and what will it take to present it from my own perspective?
o How are my interviewing skills? You wrote that one interviewer claimed your bad reference was the reason you didn't get the job, but what about the others? Did you ask the other interviewers why you were not hired? If so, did you see a pattern emerge of your strengths and weaknesses? If those interviewers weren't forthcoming, who might you ask for some honest feedback on your interviewing skills? Could you practice improving those skills?
Lastly, you may want to consider if you're targeting the jobs that are the best fit for you.
Honey Smith, Ed.M. is a Professional Life Coach who helps job seekers fast forward their careers, master life transitions and fulfill their potential.
Susan Ireland’s Two Cents
Totally Crushed, you are at the beginning of your career, which in many ways is like being a freshman in college again. (They don’t call life the “school of hard rocks” for nothin’.) Don’t be discouraged. My guess is you just have some things to learn about yourself and the world of work.
I suggest you meet with a career coach –- maybe a counselor through your former college career center or a professional from the private sector -- who can explore what went “wrong” on your last job and see what skills you need to hone or maybe what mindset you can shift to help in your career future.
About job references: in Ask the Experts: Letter of Reference Unavailable Because Employer is Out of Business Carol Anderson has a way around the typical reference-from-the-former-employer:
If you are a recent college graduate or have kept in touch with your professors, you can also call on them for letters of recommendation and use one of them as a substitute for a recommendation from an employer.
Job Lounger, do you have a question? Email (joblounge@aol.com) it to me and I’ll post your question and an expert’s answer here in The Job Lounge.
Wednesday, April 04, 2007
Fired for Office Affair
Question
During my last position I made the unfortunate decision to get involved with a married co-worker. The married part was bad enough, but we also work at a high-profile firm and our reputation is very important to clients.
When the affair was discovered, with the help of his wife, I was given the option of leaving quietly to protect the interests of the firm. However, it was very apparent how my position as the female (home-wrecker, courtesy of his wife) in the affair was viewed.
I am now in the process of seeking a new job in the same field and I would like to know how I can best explain my reasons for leaving an excellent job that I had worked at for the past four years, and how to deal with my previous company in terms of obtaining references.
Sincerely,
Busted in the office
Answer
by Marc Effron, VP, Talent Management, Avon Products
Hi Busted – That sounds painful! But you’re not the first person in corporate America to find yourself in that situation, so let go of any concern about how you were viewed or why. You now have the opportunity to prove your value at another firm.
In terms of explaining your reason for leaving, it sounds like you don’t have a settlement with that firm that states what you can and can’t say. Given that, you have two choices. You can tell prospective employers the actual reason, without too much detail. Something like, “I was dating a co-worker and it became uncomfortable to remain there after our relationship ended,” which provides enough substance to shut down any deeper digging by the interviewer. It also shows you aren’t hiding anything (and it’s a touchy enough subject that no one’s going to probe for more info!).
Alternatively, you can give a vague response like, “My employer and I mutually agreed that I would leave, but it was not related to my performance or to any illegal activity.” While this might seem easier than the first choice, the lack of detail leaves the interviewer to fill in the blanks and any uncertainty in the interview is not a good thing.
On references, most employers are smart enough not to officially say anything in situations like this. They should be able to confirm your time of employment and salary, but that’s it. If you still have a trusted colleague or two at that firm who will provide references, that’s the best way to go. Be sure to coach them ahead of time about what to say when the prospective employer calls. If not, are there co-workers from previous jobs or from other organizations (charities, professional groups) who might serve as references?
Best of luck in your search!
Marc Effron is Vice President, Talent Management for Avon Products. He has authored two books (including Leading the Way and numerous articles about leadership. He is a frequent speaker at industry events.
Susan Ireland’s Two Cents
Busted, Sex and the Workplace by Ronnie Ann is a good post for you. Ronnie Anne not only tells of her own office affair, she also offers insight into the professional fallout that commonly results from such an affair.
Job Lounger, do you have a question? Email (joblounge@aol.com) it to me and I’ll post your question and an expert’s answer here in The Job Lounge.
During my last position I made the unfortunate decision to get involved with a married co-worker. The married part was bad enough, but we also work at a high-profile firm and our reputation is very important to clients.
When the affair was discovered, with the help of his wife, I was given the option of leaving quietly to protect the interests of the firm. However, it was very apparent how my position as the female (home-wrecker, courtesy of his wife) in the affair was viewed.
I am now in the process of seeking a new job in the same field and I would like to know how I can best explain my reasons for leaving an excellent job that I had worked at for the past four years, and how to deal with my previous company in terms of obtaining references.
Sincerely,
Busted in the office
Answer
by Marc Effron, VP, Talent Management, Avon Products
Hi Busted – That sounds painful! But you’re not the first person in corporate America to find yourself in that situation, so let go of any concern about how you were viewed or why. You now have the opportunity to prove your value at another firm.
In terms of explaining your reason for leaving, it sounds like you don’t have a settlement with that firm that states what you can and can’t say. Given that, you have two choices. You can tell prospective employers the actual reason, without too much detail. Something like, “I was dating a co-worker and it became uncomfortable to remain there after our relationship ended,” which provides enough substance to shut down any deeper digging by the interviewer. It also shows you aren’t hiding anything (and it’s a touchy enough subject that no one’s going to probe for more info!).
Alternatively, you can give a vague response like, “My employer and I mutually agreed that I would leave, but it was not related to my performance or to any illegal activity.” While this might seem easier than the first choice, the lack of detail leaves the interviewer to fill in the blanks and any uncertainty in the interview is not a good thing.
On references, most employers are smart enough not to officially say anything in situations like this. They should be able to confirm your time of employment and salary, but that’s it. If you still have a trusted colleague or two at that firm who will provide references, that’s the best way to go. Be sure to coach them ahead of time about what to say when the prospective employer calls. If not, are there co-workers from previous jobs or from other organizations (charities, professional groups) who might serve as references?
Best of luck in your search!
Marc Effron is Vice President, Talent Management for Avon Products. He has authored two books (including Leading the Way and numerous articles about leadership. He is a frequent speaker at industry events.
Susan Ireland’s Two Cents
Busted, Sex and the Workplace by Ronnie Ann is a good post for you. Ronnie Anne not only tells of her own office affair, she also offers insight into the professional fallout that commonly results from such an affair.
If your job absolutely forbids it, I am warning the women out there that in many cases YOU will be the one let go. I’ve seen it in several cases where the couple has been caught and the woman is then asked to leave. Not fair, but better to know.
In one case at a well-known entertainment company, the couple were both high-powered executives and the romance was hardly a secret. But when things went sour, the woman eventually was pushed out in an ugly political battle. And she was no shy retiring flower by any means.
Plus there is still the matter of reputation. Even though this is the 21st Century, women more often than men are still the object of that “knowing smirk” - while guys get that “way to go” look. Not a big deal to some - totally unacceptable to others. And certainly all this varies by industry, specific company, and even where you live. Only you know your circumstances and what you are willing to deal with.
Job Lounger, do you have a question? Email (joblounge@aol.com) it to me and I’ll post your question and an expert’s answer here in The Job Lounge.
Thursday, March 22, 2007
Stressed Out by Bad Reference
Question
I have a long question that is stressing me out. I was let go from my position of 9 months, at the end of January. I live in FL, an at-will state, so when asked why I was being let go, the manager told me she didn't feel I was improving fast enough for her, and she couldn't trust my work. This was an entry level position, and when I was hired they specifically told me they would provide training. Their training was the previous employer coming in all of ten minutes, and 8 of those minutes she spent recounting her vacation. This manager and I never really meshed, and though I tried everything, she ignored all the positive comments about me, and I believe purposely intimidated me.
Well, I am trying to move on from that, in a completely different direction career-wise, but she is still my most recent employer. I recently applied for a position, and found out through a friend of mine that the other director, whom I've never worked with, said I simply "couldn't cut it" and when asked for specifics said "well, I didn't work with her that closely but the consensus is she just wasn't cutting it." I've tried calling the managers, to settle on something, but she is not returning my calls or taking them.
I also tried getting someone else to give me a reference, but this is a very small company and the person I worked with said she didn't feel comfortable giving a reference because the manager typically handles that.
What can I do to get around this?
-- Nicole
Answer
by John West Hadley, Career Search & Career Enhancement Counselor, “Helping Job Seekers Who Are Frustrated With Their Search”
Nicole: I can certainly understand why you are stressed out! This is s very frustrating Catch 22 type situation. Despite everything, you need to find a way to take the high road and present yourself as a consummate professional who is disappointed that things didn’t work out with her past employer but who is looking forward to making outstanding contributions in her next opportunity.
Try dealing with your challenge as 2 separate issues:
1. What do I do about the bad references?
2. How do I answer “Why did you leave your last employer?"
For the bad references, even though FL may be an “at will” state, that doesn’t mean an employer has carte blanche to badmouth you to others. Many companies, particularly larger ones, have policies that state that managers should not provide references. They fear that a past employee who feels that they are being maligned may sue the company. You may be able to play on that fear to at least get a neutral response to reference requests.
Here’s one possibility: Try writing a polite, professional letter laying out your case for why you feel the termination wasn’t a reflection of your job performance and potential. Don’t bother to argue that you shouldn’t have been terminated; simply present what happened in an objective manner. Acknowledge that you understand they may have had a change in plans that made it difficult to provide the training they had intended for helping you get up to speed. Explain that you aren’t requesting reinstatement, but would appreciate it if they would cease providing negative information in reference checks, since your termination clearly wasn’t related to any performance issues. And be sure to cite the positive comments you received during your 9 months of employment.
Send the letter to a senior person (the person in charge of Human Resources, for example), and copy the manager who has been giving negative feedback on you. And indicate a date on which you will follow up if you haven’t heard from them. And if you don’t hear from them by then, and aren’t able to reach the head of HR on the phone, then you might send another copy via registered mail.
You may also want to talk with an attorney experienced in employment law to see what he/she would recommend. Perhaps a simple letter from the attorney along the same lines as the above would have the desired effect.
Now, work on your answer to the natural question, “Why did you leave your last employer?"
You need to be as honest as you can be without openly badmouthing your past employer. Think carefully about your answer and practice it with others, asking them to be brutally honest in their feedback. Work on it until you can deliver your message professionally and without negative emotions.
Provide the simplest possible answer. If the other person insists on probing further, share a bit more, but resist getting into a long story. Stay very professional, upbeat, and confident in your ability to provide great value to a new employer. At its core, your story might be something like: “The company hired me with the intention of providing training for the role they wanted me to fill. After a few months, there was a change in direction, and they decided they didn't need me after all."
If you find that you are confronted with the bad review from the past manager, you might try coming back with “Frankly, I'm surprised that she would have said that. During my 9 months with the company, I recieved a number of positive comments on my work." Then show or quote the comments that you received.
If pressed further: “I have no explanation - I'm as mystified as you are. If you don't mind, I would prefer to focus on why I would be an outstanding candidate for this opportunity."
By the way, if you aren’t successful in eliminating the negative references from your past employer, then in any interview where it may be at the point of reference-checking, you may want to reveal something about the situation before they would find out on their own. You don’t want them to think you were dishonest with them because you didn’t share it.
Finally, think about anyone else from another company who could serve as a reference to your work quality and ethic. This could be a past employer, a co-worker, a vendor with whom you worked, or even a client. Make sure to include such people in every reference list you give out.
Good luck!
For further help on your search, I invite you to check out the articles available on my website at JHACareers.com.
Susan Ireland’s Two Cents
Here’s some advice from a blogger, Andy, on how to handle the fired-from-last-job issue: Career Advice: Interview the Company:
Andy, goes on to tell the story of how he got hired, fired, and moved on.
Job Lounger, do you have a question? Email (joblounge@aol.com) it to me and I’ll post your question and an expert’s answer here in The Job Lounge.
I have a long question that is stressing me out. I was let go from my position of 9 months, at the end of January. I live in FL, an at-will state, so when asked why I was being let go, the manager told me she didn't feel I was improving fast enough for her, and she couldn't trust my work. This was an entry level position, and when I was hired they specifically told me they would provide training. Their training was the previous employer coming in all of ten minutes, and 8 of those minutes she spent recounting her vacation. This manager and I never really meshed, and though I tried everything, she ignored all the positive comments about me, and I believe purposely intimidated me.
Well, I am trying to move on from that, in a completely different direction career-wise, but she is still my most recent employer. I recently applied for a position, and found out through a friend of mine that the other director, whom I've never worked with, said I simply "couldn't cut it" and when asked for specifics said "well, I didn't work with her that closely but the consensus is she just wasn't cutting it." I've tried calling the managers, to settle on something, but she is not returning my calls or taking them.
I also tried getting someone else to give me a reference, but this is a very small company and the person I worked with said she didn't feel comfortable giving a reference because the manager typically handles that.
What can I do to get around this?
-- Nicole
Answer
by John West Hadley, Career Search & Career Enhancement Counselor, “Helping Job Seekers Who Are Frustrated With Their Search”
Nicole: I can certainly understand why you are stressed out! This is s very frustrating Catch 22 type situation. Despite everything, you need to find a way to take the high road and present yourself as a consummate professional who is disappointed that things didn’t work out with her past employer but who is looking forward to making outstanding contributions in her next opportunity.
Try dealing with your challenge as 2 separate issues:
1. What do I do about the bad references?
2. How do I answer “Why did you leave your last employer?"
For the bad references, even though FL may be an “at will” state, that doesn’t mean an employer has carte blanche to badmouth you to others. Many companies, particularly larger ones, have policies that state that managers should not provide references. They fear that a past employee who feels that they are being maligned may sue the company. You may be able to play on that fear to at least get a neutral response to reference requests.
Here’s one possibility: Try writing a polite, professional letter laying out your case for why you feel the termination wasn’t a reflection of your job performance and potential. Don’t bother to argue that you shouldn’t have been terminated; simply present what happened in an objective manner. Acknowledge that you understand they may have had a change in plans that made it difficult to provide the training they had intended for helping you get up to speed. Explain that you aren’t requesting reinstatement, but would appreciate it if they would cease providing negative information in reference checks, since your termination clearly wasn’t related to any performance issues. And be sure to cite the positive comments you received during your 9 months of employment.
Send the letter to a senior person (the person in charge of Human Resources, for example), and copy the manager who has been giving negative feedback on you. And indicate a date on which you will follow up if you haven’t heard from them. And if you don’t hear from them by then, and aren’t able to reach the head of HR on the phone, then you might send another copy via registered mail.
You may also want to talk with an attorney experienced in employment law to see what he/she would recommend. Perhaps a simple letter from the attorney along the same lines as the above would have the desired effect.
Now, work on your answer to the natural question, “Why did you leave your last employer?"
You need to be as honest as you can be without openly badmouthing your past employer. Think carefully about your answer and practice it with others, asking them to be brutally honest in their feedback. Work on it until you can deliver your message professionally and without negative emotions.
Provide the simplest possible answer. If the other person insists on probing further, share a bit more, but resist getting into a long story. Stay very professional, upbeat, and confident in your ability to provide great value to a new employer. At its core, your story might be something like: “The company hired me with the intention of providing training for the role they wanted me to fill. After a few months, there was a change in direction, and they decided they didn't need me after all."
If you find that you are confronted with the bad review from the past manager, you might try coming back with “Frankly, I'm surprised that she would have said that. During my 9 months with the company, I recieved a number of positive comments on my work." Then show or quote the comments that you received.
If pressed further: “I have no explanation - I'm as mystified as you are. If you don't mind, I would prefer to focus on why I would be an outstanding candidate for this opportunity."
By the way, if you aren’t successful in eliminating the negative references from your past employer, then in any interview where it may be at the point of reference-checking, you may want to reveal something about the situation before they would find out on their own. You don’t want them to think you were dishonest with them because you didn’t share it.
Finally, think about anyone else from another company who could serve as a reference to your work quality and ethic. This could be a past employer, a co-worker, a vendor with whom you worked, or even a client. Make sure to include such people in every reference list you give out.
Good luck!
For further help on your search, I invite you to check out the articles available on my website at JHACareers.com.
Susan Ireland’s Two Cents
Here’s some advice from a blogger, Andy, on how to handle the fired-from-last-job issue: Career Advice: Interview the Company:
The HR person was impressed with my openness about the matter and told me my attitude about it indicated self-confidence. Indicating self-confidence is a good thing if you're talking to a human resources person, so I thought I'd pass this tidbit along: If you've been canned, bring it up!
Andy, goes on to tell the story of how he got hired, fired, and moved on.
Job Lounger, do you have a question? Email (joblounge@aol.com) it to me and I’ll post your question and an expert’s answer here in The Job Lounge.
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